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: Interacting with bean counters...
: Interacting with bean counters... -- CCR5600Design	Post Reply	Top of thread	Engineering Forum

Posted by: jboggs ® 02/19/2009, 10:37:33 Author Profile eMail author Edit

I once worked for a company that priced and sold multi-million dollar custom-designed machines with very limited involvement from engineering. And they ALWAYS cut the engineering cost and schedule estimates in favor of "more attractive" numbers. After years of losing money and blaming engineering, they decided to "fix" engineering by applying the principles of lean manufacturing to the engineering process. To make a long story short, their project teams discovered that the actual project costs and schedules ended up being exactly what engineering said they would. The problem was the process, not the personnel. They developed a whole new quotation process, focused on both quick turnaraound and accurate results. This required them to impose and stick to some very strict rules in each step of that process, with no provision for anyone to "go around" the system. Development of the new process was painful for all involved, but it worked! The secret was that management realized that they are the ones that establish the process, be it right or wrong. And that they are the ones that must accept responsibiity for the results of that process.

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: Interacting with bean counters...
: Interacting with bean counters... -- CCR5600Design	Post Reply	Top of thread	Engineering Forum

Posted by: randykimball ® 02/18/2009, 14:19:34 Author Profile eMail author Edit

Oh, my, is that a soap box you have just handed me? .. don't mind if I do... thank you, thank you, Wow, well, we continue to express "how it is" and accomplish a quality, proven design process. The bean counters and sales teams never like it and frankly, never will. So with the knowledge that no matter how well or how quickly you develop a project it is not going to suit those whom do not understand the process, (and I frankly don't blame them they just don't understand the process), one (in my opinion) can only do a good professional and ethical job and not get too worked up about their opinion which you can not possibly satisfy. My experience is we are gods when the project gets delivered and toilets while they are being developed. They forget we are gods in about ten minutes or as soon as they have dreamed up the next sales wonder to blame us for not having a complete design of yet. The second part of this is we must be able to read minds and add the expected bells and beads the sales and bean counters are going to want added on, after it is far too deep into the project design for an economical or timely design change. The world would be cooking meat over fires in caves if it wasn't for design engineers, but now that we have designed all kinds of wonders for them to gripe about, they have the class and ethics to rate us about equal to a lap dog. The root problem is and will continue to be we just don't understand each other... AND need each other. (just kidding) I think every marketing team should be required by law to have one experienced mechanical engineer on their staff.... call it "truth of add statement" quality assurance. The worst suggestion of your lifetime may be the catalyst to the grandest idea of the century, never let suggestions go unsaid nor fail to listen to them. Modified by randykimball at Thu, Feb 19, 2009, 15:05:06

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: : Interacting with bean counters...
: : Interacting with bean counters... -- randykimball	Post Reply	Top of thread	Engineering Forum

Posted by: Kelly Bramble ® 02/18/2009, 16:47:16 Author Profile eMail author Edit

In general the "bean counters" tend to think one dimensionally "Money". When I make my point and counter point to unreasonable expectations or demands by these folks I always demonstrate to them the cost advantages and savings by doing the job right. I think whether one is an engineer or bean counter we can agree that the customer (organization that pays us) specifications and expectations should be met short and long term. Delivering the right product at the right price is paramount to everybody. Unfortunately, too many bean counters often do not see past the short term (money). The phrase "penny wise - pound foolish" often fits. Additionally, I do hope that your bean counters involve engineering in the original costing effort...

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: : : Interacting with bean counters...
: : : Interacting with bean counters... -- Kelly Bramble	Post Reply	Top of thread	Engineering Forum

Posted by: CCR5600Design ® 02/18/2009, 17:42:25 Author Profile eMail author Edit

In my position here at work, I wear several hats. I answer customer questions, process purchase orders, handle quality control, drafting and design and I also set up all the welding fixtures and jigs in the shop among others. I guess I just want to vent a little about a customer who called in and wanted me to design from scratch a product for him that requires 4 separate sub-weldments, 6 new pieces of hardware (including hinges, threaded fasteners and other goo gahs we have never procured before). He wanted a price the next day. The bean counters in the front office shot him a price from the hip (not a prudent thing to do as a bean counter, mind you) and now, 5 days after I took the initial request to design this product, the bean counters are realizing the numbers are not adding up. Of course, the finger gets pointed at the guy who designed it and I get saddled with the blame of being "over budget." Fun, huh? Have you guys had to deal with this before? If so, how did you quell the waters? Ron Modified by CCR5600Design at Wed, Feb 18, 2009, 17:43:13

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: : : : Interacting with bean counters...
: : : : Interacting with bean counters... -- CCR5600Design	Post Reply	Top of thread	Engineering Forum

Posted by: randykimball ® 02/19/2009, 08:53:19 Author Profile eMail author Edit

In different times it is often wise not to work with possible customers whom make unreasonable requests right out of the gate. They are nearly always the ones that will be a pain right through includding the last to pay off. These days, one just needs to take what they can get, pain includded. I would simply remind the bean counters how unwise it is to toss such people a hip shot price without a serious discussion in a meeting with you and others. Next, track the additional problems this customer will be presenting, and there will no doubt be a list of them, and after the project is completed have a serious but friendly meeting and discuss if it was a wise job to have taken (in light of my comments on this type of customer). These days we DO in deed need to take work, but not at a loss, "bean counters" can relate to it in lerms of a loss. The worst suggestion of your lifetime may be the catalyst to the grandest idea of the century, never let suggestions go unsaid nor fail to listen to them.

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